Pastor Rob Pacienza on Apathy

So simple, when we overcomplicate it, to be able to say that eternal life is a free gift, that we've been separated from God because of sin, God is both loving and just, but He solved this problem through the person of Jesus Christ, and all it takes is faith. Not our good works, just takes faith in Jesus Christ, transferring your trust from yourself, and transfer that trust to Jesus Christ, and you'll have the gift of eternal life now and forever more. It's that simple. Welcome to the Ignite with Barry Maguire podcast, where Barry's book and passion for spreading God's love are guaranteed to ignite your life. Now listen in and prepare to have your life ignited. Hi everybody and welcome to Ignite. I have a special guest with us today. More than, more than any other guest in some ways, it means so much to me. Pastor Rob, past the end, is that, am I saying that correct? I keep getting, say you're last saying for me, past the end. Past the end that you got it. I got it. I did it. You know, a funny story, when I was creating the branding for our car wax, I'd go back to 1969. I looked at this crazy spelling of Maguire's and thought, I can't use that. Nobody would be able to pronounce it. And so our company name was Mierbright Polish company at the time. That's what my granddad named it. So I was naming it Mierbright, but God kept working on me. And I really felt like, you know, I prayed about everything back even 50 years ago. And I really felt impressed that I should, no, I should use the name Maguire's. And so we ended up with this dark art deco kind of 45 degree angle. And then I found out later, after my daughter went through past the art center, that people don't read the letters. They read an image and we created an image with Maguire's. So if they look at Maguire's, they probably can't pronounce it the way we smell it. So crazy. But because they look at the image. But anyway, Pastor Rob, from Coral Ridge, Christopher Terry Church, folks, I got to just go back in history for a moment. Pardon me Rob, if I talk because this is really emotional for me. Going back to the early 70s, I fell in love with DJ Ames Kennedy. I mean, we listened to him every morning for more than 20 years. Listen to Charles Stanley too. We had two great sermons before we got to church every Sunday morning. But DJ Ames Kennedy, oh my goodness, that voice, the voice of God, right? And I always said, if he just quoted nursery rhymes, they'd be Ms. Rice. But he quoted the word he got so clearly that there are a few people, my grandfather, my mother's side, my grandfather, my dad's side. But I had few people that just molded me into what I am. And Dr. DJ Ames Kennedy, I know he, whatever it is called in Jim, but to be exact, DJ Ames Kennedy, meant so much. And of course, he's the founder of Evangelism Explosion. The greatest Evangelism program in the world. And we were early converts of that and used that. And Dr. John Sorenson, the head of Evangelism Explosion EE today, one of my great friends. And I could have him on one of these days because he and I shared shirts back and forth. It's like, I get more excited about him. He gets excited about me. In fact, he suggested an NRB that we ought to go on the road with the two of us. That would be fun. But I cut my teeth at Evangelism Explosion, this great church. And maybe 20 years ago, I found my way to the church on a business trip and snuck into the, yeah, sanctuary and made my way to that pulpit. And didn't quite get into the pulpit. I couldn't do that. I just didn't want to, but I got close. I got close to the throat. And so about a month ago, of course, you had me as your guest, Pastor Rob, and you asked me to go into the pulpit and literally as I started to step into it, I felt like I shouldn't. I thought I didn't deserve, you know, I said, maybe I should take off my shoes or something. And you said, you never go out of the, you took a picture of which I posted. I got a ton of results. But anyway, folks, this is my beginnings for sharing my faith. Evangelism Explosion, Core Ridge. And we lost Dr. Kennedy. There was a period we don't need to go into as a period of time that was not the best days. Fair to say for Core Ridge. But all the while, God has His plan. It's just amazing. Could you speak to that? You know, I get the background, but your background of being really saved with that church and growing up with that. It's just, it's a wonderful story. So share that with our listeners viewers right quick. Barry, I appreciate the opportunity. And I actually showed you when you and your wife, Karen, were here just a month ago, the exact shoe that I was sitting in when I was 14 years of age, where I heard the gospel for the first time. I was 14. I came from a broken home. My friend invited me to church. And it was there in the sanctuary of Core Ridge Presbyterian Church that I heard our founder and our friend, the late D. James Kennedy, share the gospel, share the good news that man is not saved by works, but saved by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus Christ alone. And there at 14 years of age, I committed my life to Jesus Christ. And I was the first family member, a person of my family, to commit my life to Christ. So not really even understanding who D. James Kennedy was. I walked right up to him after the service. And I told him, I got saved. What do I do now? And he took me under his wing. So he not only became my spiritual father, but he became my mentor and discipled me all throughout high school and all throughout college. Never thinking that I'd eventually be standing in that same pulpit. But God knew precisely why I needed to come to Core Ridge that day, first to be saved. And secondly, to be called into the gospel ministry. Wow. Now, how old were you again? Would that happen? I was 14 years of age. I want everybody to hear that at 14 years of age, folks. And then you went to the robed godly man of God, Dr. D. James Kennedy, and you would have to, and he embraced you. Oh, people would ask me years later, how in the world did you get lunch, week after week with D. James Kennedy? And I said, I didn't know any better. And I think it was my confidence walking up to him and being super direct with him. After all, D. James Kennedy, you know, later said he didn't have too many 14-year-olds walking up to him, asking to be mentored and discipled. And I mean, what a great lesson just to be confident and sure and what you're asking for. And he took me under his wing. And as I said, became my spiritual father and mentor. It's a, it's an incredible story. Only God, you didn't have any background. You came in, 14-year-olds, you'd say, and I mean, God had this whole plan for you to be here right now, being the pastor, even you and I, talking right now. But you go back and look at it and you can say, oh, that was insane. No, it wasn't, that was miracle upon miracle upon miracle that put you in that place. That message touched your heart, the connection, the mentoring, to give you really, that's your pulpit, more than the gigantic pulpit, and the church, your pulpit is your understanding of God coming to you from one of the great men in our lives. Absolutely, he gave me a passion for the great conviction, give me a passion for the cultural mandate, give me a passion for what it meant to really integrate our faith into all of life. But I think that the most profound thing that he gave me was a heart and a passion for the lost. He would often say, a greatest way that we can reclaim America is to win our neighbor to Christ. That is the chief calling of the Christian. If we want to transform the culture and transform this nation, it's going to be seeing millions and millions of people converting and trusting in Jesus Christ. This was the final mandate that Christ gave to his people before he left. We call it the Great Commission, and it's something that we need to continue this day. Yeah, yeah. And transforming the world, but also transforming us. I mean, if we're not sharing our faith, we're kind of going through the motions, but that's about all it is in most cases. Absolutely. And you see so many pastors shrinking away from the gospel, so many Christians thinking that this is, that somebody else is going to do this for them. But I don't see any distinction in the New Testament. It's pastors and lay people. It's the fishermen and the doctors. It's every person that follows Jesus Christ is called to share the gospel. This is the calling of the people of God. And we can't say, well, we're just going to leave it to my pastor, and we can't say we're going to leave it to my friend. Everybody needs to be on pass and on message and on mission for the King of Kings. So why is it that something maybe as much as 99% of Christians don't do the one thing God's called us to do, mandated us to do. Why are we not doing it as a church? Why are we witnessing that today? I think a lot of people have fear of rejection. I think a lot of people are just simply apathetic. I think if we really understood where people will spend eternity without a relationship with Jesus Christ, if we really understood the gravity of what happens to the lost, those people that never hear the gospel and don't profess faith in Jesus Christ, I think we would be getting up from our chairs and shouting it from the rooftop. We would look for every way. As John Swarinson says, we would be running up and down the highways and the byways declaring the good news of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world. I think in addition to either fear or apathy, I just don't think people have the tools. I think that's what's so amazing about evangelism explosion. You're as a tangible way in which people can have the basic foundations of how to share the gospel. Grace man, God Christ faith, it's that simple. I can do it on my hand. My 13-year-old daughter, Lydia, she learned when she was five years old how to share the gospel. A five-year-old can do it. Anybody can do it. It's that simple. But we need to, as the church in America understand, are people need to be equipped? Are people need to be resource for more than that? Are people need to wake up from their apathy? We're asleep at the wheel. And what a great opportunity. I think America is longing for hope. They're longing for a message that's beyond Washington, D.C. beyond what the mainstream media and social media talking heads are giving them. And the church has an opportunity to say, we've got the greatest message in the world. It's the message that turned the world upside down two thousand years ago. And if the message that will still turn the world upside down today. There's a passage in the message. I love the way the language is used often times. And one is, we carry this precious gift around in the clay pots of our ordinary lives. I like that. I mean, I just pedal car wax. And when I finish leading somebody, Lord, God, you just use me. I pedal car wax. Who am I? You even use me. If you could use me, you can use anybody. This thing of apathy is a huge factor, I think, pastor. I think the opposite for Christians, the opposite of love is not hate. We don't hate anybody. We just don't care. And we walk by people. We're surrounded by people every day that are lost. If you picture them as going to hell, it would shake you up. And that's further going. That's exactly maybe 90% of the people around us every day going to hell. If we really contemplated that instead of watching our phone to be occupied with all our stuff, he just put it down and start looking at people. They light up. They're starting for love. They're desperate for the message that we have. And we walk right by them. Back up just seconds. There's more than the pastor's role. One of the roles, the pastor from Ephesians, it talks about the role of the pastor and one of it is to equip the saints for ministry. That's what we're required to do. And then that message of how will they know unless somebody tells them and folks, all the people that are lost that you'll be with today and every day that are lost. Do you understand they're not evil? They may disturb you. They may be protesters in an event. They may be saying all kinds of horrible things. They're not evil. They're lost. Scales. The scriptures tell us, say next to which scales over their eyes, they can't. They can't see the truth. In fact, they see evil as good and good as evil. And that's where we are. So pastors are often first of most are not, but those who are, you know, few had a study. We were talking about that, but it was a few study a couple of years ago where they, they analyzed 60,000 or 6,000 different sermons. And they had all kinds of research coming in. I went to how many were proclaiming mentioning salvation, only 10% even mentioned salvation. So we, folks, we can't just send somebody church, go to church, 90% of the time it will be a woke church. They won't get anything out of it. So you have to be careful. And, and if you don't know it, church and send them to coral reds on the line, again, some real preachy. But the pastors, even, even strong pastors that are talking about, we need to reach the loss. They don't tell them how. See, walk us, see, I need, but I don't know how to do that. And I'm not equipped. And I'm not trained. And I haven't been through evangelism explosion. I hear that a lot. I haven't been trained. And I look at the training that's available through evangelism explosion. And I look at our ministry, Ignite America, and I think we're kind of a, um, uh, share your faith for dummies. We, uh, we have a, this way of, if, if, if, for most of you, I haven't gone through evangelism explosion. So they think they're off the hook. No, you're not off the hook. He didn't say, go in the world or you have been trained. He didn't say that. He said, go all of us. And if you don't have time to go to this precious ministry of evangelism explosion, you have no excuse. You can start right now. And he said, they'll know your way to cypher by your love. And you can love on, anybody could love on people and start doing it with everybody, not one everybody. And, and, and make sure you include God in your conversation. So they know that love is not coming from you. It's God's love flowing through you to them. And I think, you can speak to this, but pastors, um, there's not a lot of pastors are giving the how that they may say only 10% or talk about doing it, but even in those 10%, there's not a lot of how, how do you do it on a practical basis? How do I start doing that when I walk off the premises here? Uh, Barry, I love that you mentioned Ephesians 4. It's one of my favorite passages. The role of the pastor is, as you said, to equip the saints for the work of ministry. That means every business leader, entrepreneur, every plumber, every construction worker, stay at home mom, teacher. If they belong to Jesus Christ and they're sitting in your congregation on Sunday, it's your job to awaken the call within them. Uh, that their desk is their pulpit. Their, their office is their sanctuary. And how are we sending them out on Monday morning to redeem Monday, uh, to redeem the moment, to redeem their workplaces and their neighborhoods and their communities and their homes? Uh, and we say that, but we don't give, as you said, the tools to equip them for that all important work. Jesus said once again, he said, go and make disciples. He didn't tell, just tell that to the pastors. He told that to his followers and those followers would gain more followers. Uh, and that is not an optional mandate. It wasn't the great suggestion. It is the great commission mandated by Jesus Christ. Go, right? I've studied go in Aramaic. I've studied in Hebrew. I've studied in Greek. Go means go. We need to be mobilizing our church, mobilizing our people to go and make disciples. Well, we, we have a place on our website called most frequent excuses. And we list, I mean, there's about 12 of them. I'm not trained. I'm not gifted. I don't know that I don't know enough. You know, they'll, they'll be offended by all these. And we just destroy all those. And unfortunately, the studies are telling us that I, and I don't even know an evangelical is anymore. You read the statistics of what an evangelical quarter of court believes. I, I guess I'm not an evangelical anymore. I'm a follower of Jesus. But it says like 75% you've seen the stats, but like 75% of evangelicals think that being a good person is leading people to Jesus and they get over glory and a big surprise. That's not leading. You could be the best person on the planet. You're not leading, you're, you're not leading yourself as leave alone anybody else in Jesus by being good. That is, that is from Satan. Just puffing you up and making you feel good and they're applauded and he's such a wonderful guy. And look, and I have so many friends, car guy friends that are really extraordinary people. Car guys find me, but they are really great guys, very caring and giving. And they just, even though I say to them, they, they just, they got, you know, God would send me to hell. I better than everybody. I know it. There's no, there's, I'm not going to hell. And they don't realize that God doesn't send anybody to hell. And that's my message too. Of course, God didn't send you to hell. He gives you free choice. You have that decision to make. So everybody around us for the most part, 90% have not made that decision. And they're at best going back and forth. And we have the opportunity to touch people every day, multiple times every day. And our theme is, we may not get them saved that day. We don't know where they are. They may be in the first step of 20 steps. But no matter where they are, wherever you pick up, you know, or they move everybody every day closer to Jesus and make that a priority with everybody you're with, including your family members, you know. And when you do that, you're living for God's purpose. And that's a pretty cool way. And here's the reality, Barry. People, as you said earlier, people are hungry for this. Of course, they're hungry. This is, God has created us to have a relationship with God. And this is, it's our privilege to be able to share with them the message of hope, the message of the gospel that you can have a relationship with God. And it's not on the basis of your good works. It's on the basis of Christ's good work for you on the cross. And when people hear that, the seeds are planted and you allow God to do the work. I mean, just this past week, we had a business meeting in my office and we brought in an outside consultant. And you could tell, there was something having on her heart. And she was talking about, she was asking me questions about the church and what we believe. And it was very clear from the very beginning that she was searching and very clear that she wasn't a Christian. And right then, Amer, in a business finance meeting with our consultant, I had the opportunity to share the gospel with her. And you should, the tears started flowing down from her face, from her eyes, down her face. I mean, she was hungry. She was not supposed. She's going to be with us this Sunday in church because she is searching. She's looking for something more. And so I share that story, not to, not so I could get the praise, but look for every opportunity because we are living in a cultural moment right now where people are desperate, people are searching, people are hungry for good news, hope, and to hear the message of love in Jesus Christ. So take every opportunity, take advantage of every moment, but make sure, as we've talked about, you have the tools. Yeah. It's so simple. When do we over complicate it? To be able to say that eternal life is a free gift that we've been separated from God because of sin. God is both loving and just, but he solved this problem through the person of Jesus Christ. And all it takes is faith. Not our good works just takes faith in Jesus Christ, transferring your trust from yourself, and transfer that trust to Jesus Christ, and you'll have the gift of eternal life now and forever more. It's not simple. We make it complicated, but that's the message that we have to share, and it's a privilege to share that message every day. It is so simple. Now, in a different church, not consultant, there's a real, in your face, this, this is happening in a church. When you're focused on the subject, if your goal in that meeting is whatever subject, selling product, I don't care what you're doing. If your goal, if that's what your intention is, your highest calling is, I got to get them to say, I was there. I did it when I was building my business, and I'm a punk kid from California. They didn't know who I was. They kept slamming doors of my face, you know. But I was never disappointed, and I was looking every time I made a presentation, how I could lead that person closer to Jesus. And you just spoke to it, but I give my bare witness to that, that this is how you know the Holy Spirit is working in your life. He gives you discernment. And even if they haven't said anything in your spirit, you know, there's something going on in that person right now that needs to be dealt with. And you had the courage to speak out where someone would say, oh, they'll think I'm a fool if I say that. Same puts all these dots at us, but what would we do it? And then we bear fruit. Wow. I mean, it's amazing. She was there to sell us some software. She was there to sell a software, but we now know why she was really in my office. She needed to hear the good news of Jesus Christ. That is so true. I just shouted for the mountain top. This is a real life experience, folks. And you do it every day, and God speaks to you. And then he, he, when you open it up, he's right there with you. He hasn't left you. He's right there with you. And, and then Luke told Joseph, you're giving the words to say, you don't even have to repair for it. He does all the heavy lifting. You're just there available. And having as your highest priority, how do I move that person closer to Jesus in the midst of any presentation or the tennis match or fighting the political issue and public service in Washington, D.C. And instead of hating those people, love those people in the midst of fighting, yes, we fight the battles, but we love the people. And when we do that, wow, I mean, we never have a bad day. That's, this is, this is great stuff. Pastor, we're running out of time here. And I said, we do it for a half an hour, but might we talk to you into another half an hour to continue this conversation. We really haven't gotten in the good stuff of the how-tos. Could you, could you, could you hold over it? Let's do one more half an hour on this subject. Can we do that? I would love to. Okay. Praise God. Thank you for Pastor Rob. Father God, thank you for Pastor Rob. Thank you for core rinse. Thank you for D. James Kennedy. Thank you for John Sardson and Vandalson Explosion. We're in this together and we need to make more noise. That's what we're trying to do here today. God help us to carry this precious message to every believer watching us right now to get them off the bench and into the game for your glory. Start having the time of our lives. That's what happens when we live for your purpose. I'll live thank you Jesus. Thank you Jesus. Thanks for joining us folks and we'll stay tuned. We're going to come back another half an hour. That's the Rob's thing. you